Okay, so the title may prove confusing, so I will presently… Not!
This is a creative way of framing the questions at hand… Is Tamaki a man of God [simple enough]… Or, is he a man of doG, which is God-backwards, meaning a distortion of the truth… Or, who is possibly, with the addition of the 700, bringing something old, yet new into Evangelicalism [Okay, this is a little cheeky].
All making sense [using this term loosely]… Let’s go!
If the name, Brian Tamaki, does not mean much to you, you are probably doing your blog OE [overseas experience], so don’t be concerned, all will be revealed! To wet someone else’s appetite, I wouldn’t be so rude to do that to my visitors, here is a bit about the bishop and his wife, from the Destiny site. In contradistinction to the previous praise, here is how Cults.co.nz describes the man and his ministry… I think you will perceive the differences!
These two examples may represent and reflect what are divergent opinions of the man, his ministry, and the ministries of Destiny Church, with the recent TV exposure, putting this to the forefront, instead of shore front, of New Zealand’s cultural discourse.
What are the issues with Brian Tamaki?
If one is to read through Destiny Church’s statement of belief, such statements would seem to, propositionally anyway, place them in the broadly diverse world of Evangelicalism. While under the Pentecostal tradition, they would reside in the more extreme section [now there's pejorative take on it], the “name-it-and-claim-it,” then I’ll frame-it-you-lame… Ah… it, team, which is not necessarily a dominant expression of the Pentecostal tradition!
Therefore, such a simple analysis would mean that these individuals are our Christian, always open, brethren. Is such cult-like talk and discussion then all hot-air, and not only this, is it wrong… Hold it, that’s what they say about Dispensational Premillennials… Can’t be wrong then can it Stephen S.?
Not so fast pussy cat [its a song... we sung it at Intermediate, and I can still do it... Heaton Intermediate style]!
Before we think through this some more, the resources that sparked this debate are available for your viewing on-line. Therefore, I will now link to these, which should give you a better idea to think through this matter.
Here are videos from TV3′s Campbell Live Programme…
Destiny Church’s Inner Workings Revealed in Secret Video
While the above undercover expose-type piece is the grist that will keep this mill going, it can be prone to the editors perspective!
The next piece, on Destiny’s schools, may help to give you some further perspective on this movements context…
In this final piece, one of the main men in the leadership set-up has a frank debate with John Campbell on the following day’s programme…
Destiny Church’s Richard Lewis talks to Campbell Live
I actually thought Lewis did pretty well under fire. He was able to keep his cool, and not get sucked into the dulset tones of John “I love EVERYTHING Wellington” Campbell! In such contexts, it is not so much the watertight nature of the responses, but more the ability to be able to return some sort of fire, and frequently!
Subsequently, Destiny has also responded to the TV3 Campbell Live piece!
What may also interest you is a piece in the NZ Herald. If you are in the lands of the long lost Kiwi, you may not have read this, but it is definitely quotational [yes, I think I just made that up... kiwi higher education on show], which means it should have some correspondence with what was actually spoken, although that mouth is no horse [if you get my drift]!
However, while the TV3 expose clip is more sensational, the piece I wanted to focus on was the interview on TV One, as it is on this occasion when Mr Ed is playing Mr Tamaki [and Mr Lewis], and when we get to hear the words from their own mouths… Nay… not to forget the other young nag!
You can find this interview by Mark Sainsbury on Closeup with Bishop Brian Tamaki, Mr. Richard Lewis from Destiny, and Mark Vrankovich, from the Cult watching organisation.
This is interesting and more instructive viewing, in my trying-to-be-humble-by-God’s-grace opinion!
It is hear that I would like to make some comments about certain messages in this interview, but also some things that are concerning about this present Destiny trajectory, as evidenced by the 700 [there is a movie deal here]!
A) The statements, in the context of the loyalty pledge for the 700 men, are interesting…
Honour the King [Bishop Brian Tamaki]
and
Bow on one knee, then arise and move back to your seat with your eyes not leaving Bishop’s eyes. For those persons with gifts, they may move closer to lay it at Bishop Tamaki’s feet, then bow
These are perplexing at best, and are concerning to say the least. While art imitating life may provide more gravitas to what is happening, going through such a ritual, with such statements is way-over-the-top, sets up a false system of authority that goes beyond any biblical pattern for believers and their Pastor, practically making all else subservient to Tamaki and what he says.
For all intense and purposes, he has 700 men to do his bidding, as he sees fit. While God affirms that an elder should be above reproach, they and he are neither inspired nor inerrant, and those who don’t learn from history are bound to repeat it.
It seems that there is a pragmatic authority and motivation for this decision of the 700 men, as it is beyond the bounds of Scripture and History… unless this is his College of Cardinals. Maybe this is the beginning of the Protestant Popery!
It is also extremely unwise, as our fall from grace tells us that we are the worst sinner we know. With such a perspective, wisdom would not lead one to place themself in such a position where criticism is dependant on the man who could be criticised, with this person given the freedom to say one word, and it will be so. What happens when Tamaki misses the mark? Who can speak into his life and challenge him? Such a decision seems to indicate that Tamaki and those associated with him view the man as having some form of higher gnosis [knowledge] or even spirituality [this can be a consequence of such movements], and is therefore, more uniquely qualified to be in such a context. Practically, when Tamaki speaks, one wonders if it will be any different to when the Pope speaks ex-cathedra. The Pope is not challenged by the faithful in such contexts, as his words have a presuppositional source of authority and accuracy [I am not Catholic, so if it is more nuanced than this, I apologise]. Is the Tamaki set-up really that different? Maybe this will not be how it practically plays out, but from the knowledge we have, it is a recipe for trouble.
If Tamaki and Destiny were thinking this through, they might have come across the following to reflect upon…
Scripture affirms in 1 Timothy 5:19 that a charge against an Elder can only be accepted if it is brought forward by two or three witnesses, thereby still providing a sense of accountability, but one that can be counted on to be more factual [the two or three witnesses] than merely scurrilous [if only brought by one disenfranchised individual].
The presupposition behind this affirmation is that those in positions of leadership can fail, which 1 John 1:8 would further underscore.
Paul who founded so many churches in his time under the Sun, was not one who lorded it over those under his care. In 1 Corinthians 4:1-21, Paul speaks of the ministry of an Apostle. Read the words spoken by this Saint, and play spot the difference!
The talk about Tamaki being a king, while many point to an Old Testament context, which is its historical nexus, is really affirming what is referred to as an over-realised eschatology, which is prevalent in the “name-it-and-claim-it” team. The belief that our present physical healing is a guarantee in the atonement, is just one example where what is promised as future, is brought into the present. With this kingdom talk, and talk of Brian “the King” Tamaki, it sounds very much like they are taking this theological position to its logical conclusion, which will send it swimming with the sharks!
B) Tamaki’s defense in this debate was to use the “by your fruit you will know them” argument. While it is true that the Word of God is clear about this reality, as James 2:18 affirms, it is also true that common grace means that people do good things without any real desire to honour the biblical God of the Bible. What this means, is that while it is a true position to maintain, it is not a complete or comprehensive position, as there are factors that can motivate such a reality.
Therefore, what I would like to hear or see is a biblical discussion on the matter, which involves faith outworking itself into practice. Even though we acknowledge that there are different perspectives on issues within the Christian faith, and good men disagree on certain matters, affirming there is some wriggle room on some matters, it does not mean these matters are inconsequential, and that there is not a correct position on a given issue, or that we should not be able to irenically [peacefully] reason together.
C) What stood out for me visually in this interview set-up was the overt body language that was being displayed, which in many respects reflects the nature and context of the 700 setup, which may in turn be both prophetic and pathetic! Where this was most overt was when Vrankovich was speaking. In the first place, Tamaki dismissively articulated this with the words that he didn’t even hear what Vrankovich said… however, he then went on to try and refute it. What Tamaki affirmed in these spoken words, he exemplified in that he acted like Vrankovich was not even there [no eye contact], and if my memory and observations are correct, he did not turn at all to give this man his acceptance.
On the other hand, Lewis, one of the 700 hundred, was fully focused on Vrankovich, even turning his body, providing an intimidating presence right in Vrankovich’s face, As he was sitting right beside Vrankovich and in between him and Tamaki, such would have been an in-your-face reality when Vrankovich spoke, and provides a picture of what being a 700 man looks like.
D) However, what could possibly be described as concerning me most, depending on whether Tamaki was articulating well [which I don't find he does], were the following words, with Vrankovich also was chiming in, right near the end.
Read these words and see what you think…
[Tamaki] We know how important it is for people to have something that they can see here. God’s invisible, He needs a visible representation to help them… [Vrankovich pipes in]… The tangible expression of God, which is Brian (indicating such with his hand as he spoke… [Tamaki] That’s right Mark.
Did he really mean what he said when he responded to Vrankovich? If he was simply saying something like the words of Gal. 2:20 or an application of the words of Eph. 3:10, then such gives a different context or emphasis. However, this may be begging the point a little!
There is probably much that could be said, but I will leave it there, and if more discussion is needed, we can do it through the comments section.
For more reading on this, I would encourage you to go and read what I think is the best blogging commentary on this subject [well, maybe equal best, but what do I know!] that is on the Beretta Blog by “the Glenn of the Peoples’… Yes, his name is Glenn Peoples, just in case you are perplexed… join the club!
In, closing, let me make the following statements, combining all what I have written about, moving and looking forward!
1) This discussion seems to have little to do with what the people of Destiny believe, as it is articulated in their confession of beliefs. Yes, given readers and bloggers may not be Pentecostal and prosperous, however, this present discussion is not an inter-family debate [although I would qualify that with the discussion on Campbell Live about excessive pressure on giving that is fundamental to the Prosperity Gospel]. In other words, while there are certain things which I am Jonny King views as aberrant, the question of whether this is a cult is not can not be determined by such criteria.
2) Nor is it a challenge to the many good things this church has done, particularly in relating to a section of NZ culture that most NZ churches do not. A Maori friend of this blogger made the comment that this masculine expression of the Christian faith has resonated with this part of our kiwi culture.
It is true that in too many churches, there is a confusion between spirituality and masculinity, where good old Jesus meek and mild is all you ever hear, see and emulate, and those males who haven’t been totally emasculated by our PC culture, are viewed with spiritual suspicion, on a lower level than the gentle Jesus-in-thee. Therefore, the ministry of Destiny, which has reached such a large amount of this context, should be a kick-up-the-rear for the Christian faith in NZ that seems to not only have lost touch with the Gospel, but with the culture in kind, as such may represent a more genuine cultural expression. It is time to put away your Nana’s cardigans and get your boots on, it is time for War!
3) Something that is worth our thinking and reflection, is that a number of other faiths that skirt the historic Christian faith, but are outside of it… yeah, yeah, that is not tolerant in today’s moment, but it’s true… A number of these started by those who were once inside orthodoxy! This is the part of the debate that really concerns me, because it is the present trajectory that Destiny is heading toward that is most concerning. While Destiny may have a cult of personality [thanks Glenn] in this present decision, the question is will this move into something more eternally sinister?
Again, why this is important is that the present trajectory of Destiny’s theory-to-practice is showing some signs in the sky!
4) Which means that while his theology is broadly inside orthodoxy [as it is understood... this is not to say that there are not some odd ball positions, but it is to say that such decisions seem to not threaten the Evangel in Evangelism], this new orthopraxy is not, and should be called as such!
5) The way forward seems difficult. Reformation should be all our reality, but I am not sure if Tamaki has the Gospel-centred resources speaking into his life, and with this present decision, this seems to be further resticted.
6) We need to pray that while absolute power can corrupt absolutely, absolute grace has saved sinners like you and me, and is no match for man’s machinations!
Time will be very telling in this situation…
What say you?
Until Next Time
I am Jonny King
Postscript: If you want a bit of good old levity, then my blogging mate Ozymandias is one man who likes to let it flow. Go and Read His take on this issue, with his piece… Brian Tamaki – The Bishop who wanted to be King
Post-Postscript: For all those interested, there is an article from the Taranaki Daily News that covers a story about three former male members of Destiny church, who claim that church officials worked to break up their marriages. You can read the article here, see what you think!
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